>>The survey, in my view, isn't the issue (although these things do
>>have a bearing on auto sales),
>
>Agreed, but statistics don't always tell the truth. Here's why...
>
>>but what it captures is: Peugeot, in
>>terms of fit and finish, electrical systems, and training dealers to
>>fix the cars (or perhaps in making cars that aren't too complicated
>>for dealers to fix) has a considerable ways to go.
>
>I disagree. I haven't seen the survey yet (the local newsstand is
>behind in ordering Top Gear again), but it looks as though somewhere in
>the region of 115 owners of each model responded. What if a large
>proportion of the 115 who responded were only representative of the
>people experiencing problems, and their anger and frustration is what
>motivated them to reply in the first place? Naturally, you'll end up
>with a slanted view of things.
>
>>Survey results
>>such as this, when combined with the actual car owners experiences,
>>affect sales.
>
>True, but more so in the US market. The JD Power survey is not taken
as
>seriously in the UK as in the US.
>
>>A car owner is less likely to buy the same make again
>>if the dealers suck and the car is unreliable and poorly put
>>together.
>
>Correct, but I'm reminded of something my father said a few years ago:
>"Nobody builds a bad car anymore." Which is true: there are no *bad*
>cars, but there are *mediocre* ones. The comment was in relation to a
>pre-VW Skoda Rapid I had just bought. It wasn't a great car by any
>means, but it started, stopped, and steered. Nothing ever really went
>wrong, but it was definitely an Eastern Bloc car - spartan would be the
>best way to describe it. Somebody ahead of me bought it new, and,
>ultimately, it filtered down into my hands.
>
>>New car buyers will be steered away from the that car
>>because it does not fair well in owner surveys, be it JD Powers or
>>Consumers Digest or the European equivalents.
>
>The Vauxhall (not Opel) Vectra is proof of how almost the exact
opposite
>holds true in this case. It's a dull car with more than its share of
>problems. The dealers are notoriously rude and inept, yet people still
>buy this oh-so-average crudwagon in droves (although, admittedly, it is
>a very popular fleet car, which accounts for much of its sales). By
the
>way: this car is now being built in the US as the Saturn LS. If you
>know anyone intending to buy one, for their sake pray that the
>mechanical problems aren't a result of poor engineering.
>
>>That's how the market
>>operates. That's why makers like Peugeot, Renault, Yugo, Alfa and
>>Fiat disappeared from the US market,
>
>Well, yes, but in fairness to Yugo, they disappeared from *every*
market
>in about 1992 - they were quite literally bombed out of existence. A
>pity, as the Sana was a halfway decent car, and their upcoming sports
>car looked interesting.
>
>Similarly, in fairness to the other three, has anyone here ever looked
>at the prevailing mentality of US drivers and mechanics? Drivers:
'It's
>a foreign car, so I never need to service it.' 'It's a cheap little
>bitty car, so who cares if it blows up, it can't tow a boat.'
>Mechanics: 'I can't pronounce it, so I'm scared to work on it.' 'I
know
>it's layout is exactly the same as every Honda/Buick on the road, but
it
>still scares me.'
>
>>GM hasn't had a top seller for
>>more than a decade,
>
>Which would suggest to me that GM should go back to making cars that
>people actually want to buy. Their current line-up ranges from the
>bland to the SUV, with the only interesting car (Corvette) somewhat
>shoved into a dark corner.
>
>>and the Japanese (Accord, Camry) are the best
>>sellers in this country.
>
>Two reasons why these cars are the best-sellers here:
>
>1) Most people don't care about their cars. They want to get in, turn
>the key, and go. The Japanese did a good job - for the most part - of
>making this a realistic proposition long ago.
>
>2) As the best-sellers, they can be considered the lowest common
>denominator for their class. People buy them because they themselves
>are not capable of making an informed buying decision. I hate to admit
>it, but this includes my mother, who has owned Hondas uninterrupted
>since 1976. Never mind that her Civics and Preludes have not been the
>paragons of reliability that everyone believes them to be: she has
>convinced herself that they are good cars.
>
>>It explains why Fiat dropped from having 65%
>>of the new car market in Italy to less than 35% of it today.
>
>There were other reasons behind this, mostly legal and involving
Italian
>tax reliefs. Also, bear in mind that Fiat is up for sale at the
moment,
>and may wind up in the pockets of Mitsubishi, with whom they've had a
>partnership for a couple of years.
>
>>It seems
>>to me, then, that Europe maybe a stronghold for Peugeot now, but it
>>will increasingly find itself under threat in its home turf because
>>of the increasing availability of Japanese cars (tariff and quota
>>reductions) and its inability to compete on the quality and
>>reliability issue.
>
>All I can say is that this is why surveys are dangerous: they create
the
>perception that one thing is better than a number based solely on
>emotional ('Were you happy with the service?') responses to questions
>asked of non-technical people whose numbers are so small that they
>cannot be considered representative of the larger group. Also, what
>checks and balances are in place to ensure that the submissions
received
>are in fact valid?
>
>>If I was Folz, I'd be extremely worried about
>>Toyota building the Yaris in France. The Japanese are gearing up for
>>a major penetration of the European market.
>
>I agree completely. And while I would love to be able to say that the
>European carmakers would be able to survive this, they won't. But it
>won't be due to a survey: it'll be due to lower prices. If I can buy a
>Civic for two grand less than a 206 and get essentially the same car,
>why pay more? Never mind that smaller Japanese cars in general at home
>are notorious for cracking cylinder heads or blowing gaskets at around
>the 150,000-mile mark. It's also worth noting that tastes in cars
>differ greatly between Europe and the US. You can't sell a Buick any
>more successfully in Europe than you can a Renault in the States.
>
>- Cameron.
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sun 16 Apr 2000 - 19:03:11 UTC